tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9516277.post115262163091168551..comments2023-09-11T09:14:26.879+01:00Comments on Halfway between Ca Mau and Sai Gon: Traditional CostumeOanhhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18005515006491660673noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9516277.post-21956980457325708782008-02-06T07:30:00.000+00:002008-02-06T07:30:00.000+00:00:D lighten up! a national dress is a national dres...:D lighten up! <BR/><BR/>a national dress is a national dress - some nations have a more versatile and comfortable one, and so endure until today, and others have less comfortable ones that are now mainly symbolic and historical. i don't wear mine every day to work (i'm a southern neighbour, from malaysia), but i do wear it once or twice a week. i don't think you should have to justify wearing your own cultural dress if you want to. <BR/><BR/>besides, like our own dress, i read that the ao dai was also a 'working dress', meaning people used to wear it to do actual work, even in the field. granted, the cut may have been slightly different, but it means there are traditional cuts more conducive to movement.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9516277.post-31073506542127944552008-01-17T06:11:00.000+00:002008-01-17T06:11:00.000+00:00I like to wear comfortable dresses which I like to...I like to wear comfortable dresses which I like to buy from <A HREF="http://www.couponalbum.com/coupons/brooks-brothers.htm" REL="nofollow">Brooks Brothers</A> and <A HREF="http://www.couponalbum.com/coupons/old-navy.htm" REL="nofollow">Old Navy</A> stores through couponalbum.com...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9516277.post-51427739408120876082007-03-03T15:55:00.000+00:002007-03-03T15:55:00.000+00:00the ao dai's a bit older than that. it was based ...the ao dai's a bit older than that. it was based on imperial clothing not from the last century but around the 1700-1800's. what we know for sure from records is that all court ladies /concubines had to wear ao dai once they stepped into the forbidden city, by decree of the emperor. back then of course ao dai worn by royalty and aristocrats was extremely different, baggy and not all clingy to the body like it is today. the clingy-tight ao dai we see today with raglan buttons came around the 1920's/30's. <BR/><BR/>there are rich non peasant versions of ao tu than btw. however mostly costumes like the ao tu than (and countless other commoner costumes) are what they are, commoner costumes.. they have been glamorized to an extent though :P<BR/><BR/>there are also tons of different types of royal costumes worn that have changed throughout each dynasty for the past few thousands of years, there just hasn't been enough widespread public interest in it yet.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9516277.post-26852182587625268652006-10-19T03:49:00.000+01:002006-10-19T03:49:00.000+01:00thanks NT for another thoughtful and thought provo...thanks NT for another thoughtful and thought provoking comment! <br /><br />I'm probably not going to respond adequately here - there is too much, and it strikes me that we are not saying vastly different things. It's just fun to explore these thoughts.<br /><br />My main point, however, is that the ao dai is / has become a representation of VN monolithically: discarding, hiding, minimising the great diversity of traditional outfits throughout VN. One of my key rants about race / Asian-ness / Viet-ness is diversity. We are more diverse that the mainstream thinks / expects. But how the mainstream see us (through, in this instance, the guise of our 'traditional costume') is usually one dimensional. Me, I'm fighting that. You, you're helping me. We are both Viet-Australian but how different we are! (and how wonderful that difference is.) You *like* the ao dai. I think it is beautiful - I just can't wear the darn thing! (by the way, I love one of your photos titled something like "wedding Aug 06" - with a serene looking young woman in a luxuriantly blue ao dai). <br /><br />The ao dai is not traditional for ME. And I am uncomfortable wearing it both physically - because I find it so restrictive - and psychologically - because I am concerned about what I am representing and how I am perceived when wearing it.<br /><br />I remember from my youth a very kitschy clock that my parents had: it was a map of VN and there were three women superimposed over each of the north, central and south regionson the map of VN. Each of the women wore the traditional outfit for their regions: trousers and a long shirt but in the north it was a wrap around type long flowing shirt, central was a shorter blouse which I can't now recall very clearly (or I might be mixing north and central) and south was the ao dai. And that's not to mention whatever the outfits were for the highland ethnic minorities, and all the other ethnic minorities within VN. Viet Nam, and its people, are diverse. The clothing of the people in VN - both peasants' / commoners & imperial are diverse. and hey, I'm a peasant. I'd much rather wear the ao ba ba than the ao dai. Even to formal functions (but then I don't much like wearing any formal attire - whether the ao dai or an evening dress). <br /><br />Sure the ao dai changes and takes on modern forms, fabrics etc. My sisters had made some non-traditional ao dai with transparent material for the skirt. But what about the beautiful ao tu than? Why hasn't it been yanked into modernity and worn to represent one's origin / heritage?<br /><br />I really like that piece of trivia - it is very interesting indeed. Makes me want to research and write a thesis on the ao dai - but another lifetime perhaps :-)Oanhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18005515006491660673noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9516277.post-90216986485371296112006-10-18T17:58:00.000+01:002006-10-18T17:58:00.000+01:00i read this post of yours a while ago, and i hesit...i read this post of yours a while ago, and i hesitated. i disagree with you on some points. but let me present my bias' first.<br /><br />i really like wearing ao dai, and i collect them. on my recent trip to vn, the only thing i bought was ao dai fabric - sets and sets of them. my mum tailors them for me and they look nice, but are comfortable - the collar isn't too tight (i actually don't notice it much even), the buttons don't pop no matter how much i flail around (and i'm the type that climbs trees and fences in skirts and dresses without hesitation), i'm comfortable no matter how much i eat, and the hem of my pants is fine for me to get around comfortably in flats. <br /><br />most ao dai are actually pretty badly tailored in a sense - most of the tailoring you will get in vn is not that intelligent. they cut a rather rectangular pattern and they use the darts to tailor it tightly to your body (so that it shows off your figure), which means the end product has no give: it didn't account for the natural curves of the body, and took no account of the give of the fabric. and that's why you feel so coiffured and in costume.<br /><br />i'm lucky because mum is a pattern maker and has sewn for most of her life, making ao dai for herself in vietnam, and briefly to surivive in our earliest years here. however, over time she has altered the pattern of the ao dai she makes in line with what she's learnt as a pattern maker - which means my ao dai is most likely very different to anything coming out of vietnam - i'd even say you'd be rather comfortable in it.<br /><br />with regards the ao dai as the national costume - i think you need to know more about the ao dai and the traditional vietnamese costumes to understand why it why it is as you perceive it. i won't claim to know enough - but things like the ao tu than (traditional northern costume) and ao ba ba (what you describe in your final paragraphs and more commonly worn in the south) - have indeed been around for a long time, however, they are 'peasant's' and commoner's clothing.<br /><br />the ao dai as we know it came into existence in the early part of the last century - and was based on imperial clothing. because of this - it is regarded as more formal, and you can see why it caught the imagination of the masses, and why it continues to be worn on formal occassions. if you visited hue you would of seen the emperor's clothes and see how the ao dai resembles it and evolved to be what it is now.<br /><br /><br />in vn i stopped by ao dai shop in saigon called 'si hoang' - if you go to vn again<br /> you should consider stopping by there. whilst browsing there, the shop assistant showed us images they had collected on their research on the ao dai - showing how the ao dai has changed much over time. it was originally worn quite loosely (like imperial clothing) and over time it was tailored to more tightly fit the body. if you look at the photos you can see how the ao dai takes on the western trends of the time, and this is something that it continues to do. the ao dai is a living design: the sleeves, collar, length and fabric and cut are open to change and are constantly changing.<br /><br />si hoang is actually one of the prominent ao dai designers in vietnam now - incorporating new elements and going back to the past too in designing his line of ao dai. he has some lovely ao dai which are like the ones around in the early part of the last century which are really loose fitting but are wonderfully gorgeous. otherwise, he paints some stunning abstracts on silk which you can have tailored into ao dai or whatever you like. (and he did a wonderful children's series - he asked children to draw pictures, and they had these colourful bold pictures transferred on to fabric out of which me made a line of children's ao dai)<br /><br />another prominent ao dai designer is minh hanh - and she and si hoang have incorporated ethnic designs and ethnic fabrics in to their ao dai. i think both have famously used fabric woven and dyed by the hmong people to make their ao dai (which look quite avant garde) - so there is a start of some acknowledgement of the role of the ethnic minorities in vietnam, even in the ao dai.<br /> (although, the former regime was much more sympathetic and good to these ethnic minorities, the current regime has a policy which is looking at wiping out most minorities - actively sterilizing the women in certain minorities)<br /><br />so that's why you see ao dai wherever you go into shops and stuff. but go home and 've que' and you'll see people in ao ba ba etc. =)<br /><br />so you're right - the ao dai isn't quite traditional - it's not even that old at all! but it captured the imagination of the vietnamese, and is so versatile and adaptable which is why it's worn so much and everywhere. so whilst what your saying is some reason as to why it's still around - most of the ao dai's prevalance is due to how it has been embraced by women and how it is able to be modernised to follow the times, and to suit occassions (unlike the male ao dai, which only seems to be worn when vietnamese men are getting married)<br />. the design of the ao dai too - with pants, means you can move like you're wearing pants, but the two tunics make it act like a dress. <br /><br />so your variation of the ao dai is perfectly acceptable! =) (and i'm sure there's vietnamese girls everywhere who dislike wearing the ao dai as much as you do & for the same reasons too)<br /><br />(and in kinda trivia - the ao dai was actually banned for a few years under communism (being bourgeois dress, but was later allowed again - and is going thru a new renaissance in vietnam now)- it was taken out of being uniform, and was only reinstated as uniform in the last decade i think.n.thttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08672715361019261289noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9516277.post-1152691516587048592006-07-12T09:05:00.000+01:002006-07-12T09:05:00.000+01:00Also, I have another Sri Lankan friend/ex-flatmate...Also, I have another Sri Lankan friend/ex-flatmate, and if I'd asked her to do bridesmaid duty, I wouldn't have asked her to wear a sari. I've never seen her wear one, so it wouldn't have occurred to me. Which reassures me that my request to the Doctor wasn't motivated by 'exoticising' stuff. I think.<BR/><BR/>Um, OK, I think I'm getting a little overly defensive here. But I just suddenly thought of that, and wanted to add it here!Ceehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13109119922843881549noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9516277.post-1152690711566070332006-07-12T08:51:00.000+01:002006-07-12T08:51:00.000+01:00There you go - I had forgotten that I'd mentioned ...There you go - I had forgotten that I'd mentioned it on the blog. We're very close, used to be flatmates, and she's the sort of person that would tell me very loudly and clearly if I was offending her. She's had lots of practice :-) (Although maybe not when I'm asking her to be my bridesmaid?) I'll bring it up with her again anyway - I'm a little bit worried now!Ceehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13109119922843881549noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9516277.post-1152688686278162522006-07-12T08:18:00.000+01:002006-07-12T08:18:00.000+01:00Actually, Cee, I read the post in which you mentio...Actually, Cee, I read the post in which you mentioned asking your friend to wear her sari, and I half-smiled, brow furrowed at the many layers of misconception one can infer from an innocently asked and reasonable request. <BR/><BR/>I would assume that, if you ask a good friend, that good friend is honest enough within your relationship to express her true feelings about what she would feel comfortable wearing. <BR/><BR/>I must admit, however, that I would feel 'othered' and 'exoticised' if someone were to ask me to wear an ao dai to a function. People (Viet and non-Viet) have, of course, and, depending on the context and my relationship with the person asking, I have been more or less offended :-) and I may, or may not have told them how I felt; and whether I am offended and whether I tell them how I feel has little to do with whether they are Viet.<BR/><BR/>But yes, by all means, keep discussing with your friend. Who knows, she many not be anywhere near as conflicted as me :-)Oanhhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18005515006491660673noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9516277.post-1152679313266752332006-07-12T05:41:00.000+01:002006-07-12T05:41:00.000+01:00On of my (future) bridesmaids is Sri Lankan, and w...On of my (future) bridesmaids is Sri Lankan, and when I popped the question to her I told her that I'd love it if she wore a sari. My reasoning was that I think she looks fantastic in a sari (I saw her trying on piles of them in preparation for her brother's wedding), and perhaps partly because I thought it would look cool, having someone wearing a sari. Thankfully she said she'd really like to wear one.<BR/><BR/>But, thinking back on it, it was kind of "othering", I guess - she's going to be the only visibly non-white member of the wedding party, and she's going to be wearing her "traditional" gear. Gah. I think I'm going to check with her again to see if she really wants to.Ceehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13109119922843881549noreply@blogger.com